SO2R - 2007/11/26 11:06Un courriel/réponse de K5ZD intéressant sur SO2R ---------------------------------------------------------
Even though everyone loves to talk about SO2R and the advantages it brings, but it is not easy (or always an advantage).
SO2R works best when you have a slow and steady run on one band and want to be able to chase multipliers or QSOs on a second band. It also makes it a little easier to change bands since you can stay on top of propagation and find a clear frequency before you jump.
I made a comment in the Contest University at Dayton this year that needs to be said. If you aren't getting everything you can out of one radio, then it isn't worth the effort to add a second radio. How can you tell? If you find that you are bored while running people and have brain capacity left to read a magazine or watch TV, then you are ready to add another challenge. SO2R can give you something to do and it is fun to learn.
Step 1 is to get SO2R capable. This means two radios and a switching sytem for headphones and keyer/mic. You will need antennas with some separation or some filters/stubs to keep from blowing up receivers.
Once you have the infrastructure, then you can proceed to getting used to doing two things at the same time. I recommend RTTY as a great way to learn SO2R and practice since it removes the brain function of copying and lets you focus on the mechanics of moving between radios.
There is no web site or book you can read on how to do SO2R. It is a learned skill that requires some practice. But, it is a great way to make contesting more fun.
Randy, K5ZD
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VE2FK
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Re:SO2R - 2007/11/26 16:50A Reply to Randy K5ZD email on SO2R ------------------------------------------- Some comments on excellent K5ZD's post based on my experiences with SO2R:
Correct. There are a few operators who can work in some loud and fast stations on the 2nd radio even while running a really fast rate (a hundred an hour on the CQ radio) but in general it's an efficiency improvement for moderate rates. It's also an easy way to check propagation on other bands or to "dual CQ" for short periods to see which band produces the better rate. It's also a tool for listening to the competition who are running on another band to see if they are getting answers.
So true. SO2R also is FUN! It overcomes the boredom of slow periods. It allows one to CQ and also to S&P simultaneously. But be ready to get really tired and mentally taxed since your brain will have no rest periods.
There are levels of SO2R-ism. You can start out with a very quick and simple second radio to try it: a barefoot radio with simple antenna. Be ready for inter-station RFI but it's a goos way to start. You will be amazed that you can work almost all the "low hanging fruit" with 100W and a simple antenna. Let the other station's antennas do the heavy lifting for you at this level. But to move into the full bore SO2R level, with band-pass filters and antennas which can be matched to the radios based on band selection automatically is difficult and requires a real commitment in station construction and some $$ as well. All in all, I would say that going to SO2R is the best decision I ever made in my contesting effectiveness as a single-op.
Different strokes for different folks. For "train the brain" practice, CW provides a wonderful opportunity to utilize SO2R. The possibilities are endless. SSB is good as well.
Randy is right. Contesting is so much more fun at the isolated and lonely single-op level with SO2R.
For a location like the extreme northland of the Yukon and NWT, I suppose that SO2R would be an efficiency improvement, certainly when more than one band is open. It would allow J. to call CQ and also to surprise and delight others by calling them when they are CQing. I would say that the "how can I work VY1JA question" is one of the most interesting aspects of the SS these days. But when the band opens and J. can run, it's bedlam up there. The NWT mult will get huge pileups. In those circumstances he will be tested to keep up with his pile-up. My gut feel is that J. will be happier focusing on his two main operating conditions-either running a ferocious pile-up, or when he can't run, calling others and making their day.
I'll also state that it is absurd IMHO, to argue that SO2R is a different class from SO1R. It's one operator. That's what matters. The slippery slope that one enters when one argues that a single op cannot use advanced technology is a dead end. We have seen this movie before: electronic keyers, voice recorders, computers, tri-band antennas over wires, monoband yagis over tribanders, stacks over single antennas, multiple towers, etc.
If it's a single operator with no outside help (packet, spotters, other operators) it's single op.He/she can use any power level, any radio or radios, any antennas, any tower height. Place no artificial barriers in the way. Let the hobby evolve.
Jim George N3BB
Post edited by: ve2fk, at: 2007/11/26 16:51
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VE2TZT
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Re:SO2R - 2007/11/26 20:01"If you find that you are bored while running people and have brain capacity left to read a magazine or watch TV, then you are ready to add another challenge. SO2R can give you something to do and it is fun to learn"
Excellente observation, c'est très exactement ce que je commence à ressentir sur les slow rates.
``SO2R works best when you have a slow and steady run on one band and want to be able to chase multipliers or QSOs on a second band. It also makes it a little easier to change bands since you can stay on top of propagation and find a clear frequency before you jump``
Encore très juste, c'est exactement ce que j'en attends: multis et observation des bandes.
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Re:SO2R - 2007/11/26 20:47La meilleure méthode sans doute est un rigen run et l'autre en S&P.
Le "duel CQing", soit les deux rigs appelent CQ alternativement ne m'pparait pas rentable et les pros du SO2R le déconseillent. On peut alors facilement manquer les mults recherchés.Jean-Pierre VA2SG - VE2SSS
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VA2UP
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Re:SO2R - 2007/11/26 23:40Je pense que SO2R doit être adapté selon la station et le territoire dont on dispose. Selon les contests aussi; VE2 peut être un mult interessant dans certains contest et pas dans d'autres. Little pistols SO2R peuvent trouver le temps long en dueling CQ...boring times 2!! La plupart du temps pour moi c'est run radio 1 et S&P radio 2 mais si jamais les deux bandes sont très ouvertes je saute les pieds joints running 2 radios. Le même si les bandes sont très mortes, mieux ça que spinner la roulette dans le vide... Par conditions intermediaires run+ S&P est le way to go, d'accord à 100%. Rien n'empêche de runner les 2 radios et quick qsy sur les mults de temps en temps. Mon p'tit grain de sel...
Fabi
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VE2FK
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Re:SO2R - 2007/11/27 09:15W7WHY ajoute...
I find the best use for the second radio is to keep the band map open, and when I see spots start to fill up, it is time to move to that band. I had the second radio set on 10 meters and saw a few spots start to filter in and went there and picked up 4 countries in about 10 minutes, then it went away again.
I did the same thing on 15 when operating on 20. When I would see a bunch of green mults, I'd go to 15 and start picking them up.
'Course, I do mostly S&P here now. 73 Tom W7WHY
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VE2FK
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Re:SO2R - 2007/11/29 20:23Kirk/K4RO cette fois fait ses commentaires sur SO2R ------------------------------------------------------ VE3CX wrote: > Being good at SO2R means you have spent a LOT of time with your > radio(s) getting to that point - something that a "single radio > contester just getting started" has NOT done. In that time, you > have also made improvements to your station, become better at > "reading" the bands based on how they sound, understand what the > greyline means, and a thousand other tricks that seem to never get > written down and only come from experience.
Very well said.
The potential advantage of SO2R is more efficient use of time, accomplished by listening while transmitting. This technique was explained in detail almost 14 years ago by K1ZM in the National Contest Journal. Read Jeff's excellent article entitled "Maximizing Single-Operator Contest Productivity" in the March/April 1994 issue of the NCJ. In particular, read the section called "Time Multiprocessing Operation During a Contest."
I would like to point out that the "time-sharing" advantage of SO2R can be exploited without a great deal of hardware investment. While I now have a full-blown automated SO2R setup, I built it up a piece at a time over the years. Long before I had automated relays and before products like the DX Doubler were available, I was finding multipliers while transmitting.
I did this using a tube type receiver and a random wire thrown out the window. Using the old 75A-4 receiver with a simple headphone switch from Radio Shack parts (W5ASP design) I was able to find multipliers on 10 meters while calling CQ on 15 meters. I'd spot the station on the 75A-4, punch that frequency into a memory on the IC-765, and work him when the time was right. Later on, the random wire was replaced with real antennas, and the reciever with a second transciever. Over time I added the filters, automated switching and all of the other little things that help. This year I'm adding stubs, in my never-ending quest for SO2R high power on one tower.
The point is, the primary advantages of SO2R can obtained at very little cost. Like everything else in this hobby, the sky is the limit after that. I don't know of anyone doing SO2R who hasn't first tried to maximize other aspects of their station as much as possible. If you want to start exploring the advantages of SO2R, I suggest trying a second receiver first, with a simple antenna. Use some simple protection on the receiver's antenna input (a small light bulb, small fuse, or back-to-back diode strings.) Just try it yourself, and see if you are missing anything. You might like it, or it might not be your cup of tea. You might find it gives you a great big headache.
SO2R can be a lot of fun. It is important to understand that when you lose a run frequency, you lose a run frequency. Be prepared to lose your frequency a lot, especially in the big contests, while you learn how and when to "pounce" without missing a beat on your run frequency. I've been working at SO2R for a decade now, and consider myself so-so. It really is a hard skill to master. Give it a try. Fire up that old receiver you have laying around, and see what you can hear while you are transmitting. You might be surprised. Especially when we get some spots back on old Sol.
73
-Kirk K4RO
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VA2SG
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Re:SO2R - 2007/12/10 08:36VA2UP tout à fait raison. En fait ce sont tous des commentaires appropriés.
En précisant que les prévilégiés qui ont deux linéaires ne devraient pas attendre trop longtemps avant de faire du dual CQ, comparativement aux pistols.
Le moindre signe que ca ouvre disons pas mal, j'essairais un CQ. Quitte à revenir asser vite en S&P et run.
Aussi parfaitement vrai de dire qu'il faut adapter la stratégie selon notre statut ou non de mult recherché. Au WPX, au CQ WW, même aux ARRL DX, et sans doute aux SS, le Québec peut être recherché. Dans ce cas, encore une fois en HP, le dual CQ peut être très pertinent.Jean-Pierre VA2SG - VE2SSS
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VE2TZT
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Re:SO2R - 2008/03/16 17:41Retour d’expérience des essais préliminaires SO2R durant le Russian DX 2008. Radio1 : FT1000 MKV field + 1000W+ antenna farm VE2TZT Radio2 : FT757GX2 100W+antenne HF6V
Le système :
-Le système de commutation automatique des filtres fonctionne très bien, l’alarme sonore de ``bandes identiques`` par buzzer s’avère beaucoup plus utile que j’imaginais, en effet, je me suis surpris à de nombreuses reprises à changer de bande sur la radio 1 sans penser à la radio 2. L’alarme coupe également les signaux TX GND qui vont vers les amplis donc, en cas de changement de bande inadéquat en cours de transmission, l’ampli est immédiatement désactivé, réduisant entre 10 et 15dB le risque de brûler le front-end du récepteur qui a effectué le changement de bande. Une sortie existe qui permettra par la suite de carrément couper l’entrée antenne du récepteur. -les combinaisons de filtres sont d’efficacité inégale , par exemple le 80m/20m est excellent, le 20m tx, 40m rx est très mauvais (en tous cas avec un FT757 comme récepteur 40m, on verra avec le K3 bien mieux protégé en intermodulation). -Dans le but de faire d’une pierre deux coups, (faire du SO2R mais aussi pouvoir monter par la suite une station multi single ou M2 ), je voulais tester une configuration avec un PC par radio et une connexion réseau sous Writelog pour synchroniser les logs. Si tout semble ok et facile à lancer au départ, au bout de quelques heures, apparitions de gros problèmes de fiabilité de la synchronisation entre les 2 ordinateurs, pertes de connexion, plantes nombreuses, persistance de qso redondants impossibles à effacer sans déconnecter ect… Je ne pense pas que les retours HF soient en cause, mais plutôt des problèmes de PC pas assez puissant ou une mauvaise utilisation du logiciel. A approfondir. -Reste à explorer, dans le cadre du SO2R, l’utilisation de 2 radios sur un seul PC, Writelog est supposé prévu pour.
La pratique :
La synchronisation du rythme des qso en run (radio 1) avec le rythme du multi à contacter sur la radio2 est toute une affaire, surtout quand le multi est très lent, fait répéter ses correspondants ect…, il faut parfois 6 à 10 qso avant de seulement réussir à copier l’indicatif au complet (il est vrai que j’avais pas l’option de mettre une radio sur chaque oreille et que l’audio de la radio 2 était coupée à chaque fin de transmission de la radio1). Il semble donc impératif, lorsque l’on a réussi à réunir toutes les conditions de synchronisation, de réussir un first call sur la deuxième radio. Pour ça, il faut de la puissance et une bonne antenne. Pour essayer, et faute de mieux, j’avais un 100W et un verticale sur la deuxième radio (pas encore installé la matrice de commutation d’antennes) + mauvaise propagation , je suis pas arrivé à grand chose sur ce chapitre : vraiment pas assez puissant pour rendre efficace un SO2R en transmission. Donc il est impératif d’équilibrer les 2 radios (puissances, antennes) Par contre, c’est déjà un énorme avantage en réception, car permet de checker en permanence les autres bandes et de prendre des bonnes décisions de changement de bande.
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VE2TZT
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Re:SO2R - 2008/03/16 17:43VE2TZT Band data
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VE2TZT
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Re:SO2R - 2008/03/16 17:44VE2TZT Band data intérieur
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VE2FK
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Re:SO2R - 2008/03/16 20:18Travail de PRO. Tant qu'à ta première expérience en SO2R c'est certain que c'est un mode qu'il faut apprivoiser un peu comme nos premiers QSO en ondes. Même encore, les premiers contacts en RUN sont toujours plus énervants, et quelques instants plustard c'est devenu de la routine.
Pour le moment ici j'ai simplement simuler le SO2R en CW et RTTY, j'attends d'avoir le sys d'antennes cet été.
Bravo encore une fois.
73, Claude VE2FK
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